MCGE against the Magellan

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Yarc
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MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Yarc »

Hi,

I was going to start a ten game match between my Magellan and the MCGE which I received at Christmas. I like using the time control of 40 moves in 2 hours because I think this is a good test of the engines as well as my patience! The MCGE does not have this time control as such, because its levels are now supporting the Fischer clock but it does have a nifty feature for programming in your own levels. I have completed the first game but alas, being very unlucky one of the black knights is no longer being recognised by the board. How frustrating is that, and during the holiday period!

I am wondering that with the playing strength of the MCGE being close to 2400ELO and the Magellan at around 2206ELO (Selective Search) if this will be a fair match. In theory, the MCGE should stamp all over the Magellan. Anyway, I’ll see how the Magellan fairs when I get a replacement piece (and a spare set).

I set the Magellan to use its tournament book and MCGE to use the default HIARCS big book.

Here is the first game for your pleasure:
Game 1
Magellan v MCGE (HIARCS Book) 40 moves / 2 hours

[Event "40m/2h Mag V MCGE Big book"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Magellan"]
[Black "MCGE"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C50"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d3 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Nd5 h6 7.c3 d6 8.O-O O-O 9.b4 Ba7 10.a4 Be6 11.Nxf6+ Qxf6 12.Bxe6 Qxe6 13.Re1 f5 14.exf5 Rxf5 15.Qe2 Qf7 16.Ba3?! Bb6? 17.Bb2 Kh8 18.Red1 Rf4 19.Bc1 Rf6 20.Ba3 Rf8 21.b5 axb5 22.axb5 Qg6 23.Kh1 Ne7 24.c4 Nf5 25.c5 dxc5 26.Qxe5 Nd4 27.Nxd4 Re8 28.Ne6 Rexe6 29.Qg3 Qf5 30.Bb2 Rg6 31.Qh4 Qd5 32.Rg1 Re2 33.Ba3 Qxd3 34.Qa4 Rxf2 35.Qa8+ Kh7 36.Qxb7 c6 37.Qxb6 Qd5 38.Qxc6 Rxc6 39.Rad1 Rd6 40.Rxd5 Rxd5 41.b6 c4 42.h3 c3 43.Ra1 c2 44.Rc1 Rd1+ 45.Kh2 Rxc1 46.Bxc1 Rf6 47.b7 Rb6 48.b8=N Rxb8 49.Bd2 Rd8 50.Bc1 Rd1 51.Bb2 Kg6 52.g4 Kg5 53.Kg2 Kh4 54.Ba3 Rd2+ 55.Kf1 Kxh3 56.Ke1 Rd1+ 57.Kf2 Kxg4 58.Ke3 h5 59.Bc1 h4 0-1

Final position when MCGE announces mate in 8:
[fen]8/6p1/8/8/6kp/4K3/2p5/2Br4 w - - 0 60[/fen]

They played the Giuoco Pianissimo, Italian Four Knights variation.

The first questionable move goes to the Magellan at move 16:
[fen]r5k1/bpp2qp1/p1np3p/4pr2/PP6/2PP1N2/4QPPP/R1B1R1K1 w - - 2 16[/fen]
Here Magellan moved Ba3?! What was that? Black seems to be forming a strong king-side attack and White is moving its defences away from the battle. I wondered if this was a bug moving the Bishop left instead of right to e3.

But then Black’s reply of Bb6 is wasting time. This Bishop is already exerting pressure on the Bishop Pawn on f2 and was safe at a7.
But again, Magellan makes another strange move 17 Bb2?
What use is the Bishop here? Why not attack the Bishop at b7 with a5?

I’m no expert player but these are some strange moves. I let Stockfish8 analyse the game and it supported my opinion.

By move 18 Magellan still does not like the idea of a5 attacking the Bishop and MCGE does not want to push its pawn to a5 to ward off White’s pawns. Instead it moves Rf4:
[fen]r6k/1pp2qp1/pbnp3p/4p3/PP3r2/2PP1N2/1B2QPPP/R2R2K1 w - - 8 19[/fen]

This now encourages White to moves its Bishop back to where it was at c1, attacking Black’s Rook!
Black has to retreat but then we have another strange move from the Magellan. It moves its Bishop back to the side lines 20.a3?
[fen]r6k/1pp2qp1/pbnp1r1p/4p3/PP6/2PP1N2/4QPPP/R1BR2K1 w - - 10 20[/fen]

Obviously, neither of these dedicated machines can see far enough ahead as per Stockfish, so I have not shown all the moves Stockfish questioned, that would be unfair. But the strange moves I have highlighted possibly come under the heading of "Artificial Stupidity" as once described by William Harston. A case of machines not knowing what they are doing as opposed to humans making mistakes because of a thought process gone wrong. That being said, I would lose against these machines anyway ;-)

The game continues with MCGE maintaining its superior position and the Magellan not really able to do much against it. The final mate in 8 announcement and it’s all over for the Magellan, which also saw the mate when there were 7 moves remaining.

Can the Magellan show better play against the MCGE? I’ll have to wait for the replacement faulty Knight before I can find out.

Match on hold Regards
Ray
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Steve B »

Yarc wrote: I’ll have to wait for the replacement faulty Knight before I can find out.
Did Millennium agree to send you a replacement Knight for Free?
while your waiting... you can still enjoy your new chess computer
have it play a Knight Odds Game against a much weaker opponent
say about 200-300 Pts Lower
MCGE plays Black without it KN or QN
use position setup and accept the starting position sans the offending Knight

i have posted several Odds Games here over the years ..pitting computers against each other with large differences in ELO
it is really quite interesting(IMHO)

in fact....i had the MCGE give R odds to the Novag Savant ..and then other games at KN odds

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=81347#81347

Just Sayin Regards
Steve
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Yarc »

Steve B wrote:Did Millennium agree to send you a replacement Knight for Free?
while your waiting... you can still enjoy your new chess computer
have it play a Knight Odds Game against a much weaker opponent
say about 200 Pts Lower
MCGE plays Black without it KN or QN
use position setup to set up all the pieces except for the pesky Knight

i have posted several Odds Games here over the years ..pitting computers with large differences in ELO
it is really quite interesting(IMHO)

in fact....i had the MCGE give R odds to the Novag Savant ..and then another game at KN odds

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=81347#81347

Just A thought Regards
Steve
No reply from Millennium yet. Maybe they are still on holiday.

I did think about your idea of playing against weaker machines with piece odds. It's a good idea and I might have to do that. Just been a little annoyed I did not get the spare set of men as you recommended.

I remember reading your article and very interesting it is too. Indeed, a knight can make all the difference.

Maybe it would give me some chance against the MCGE Regards
Ray
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Yarc
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Yarc »

Steve B wrote:Did Millennium agree to send you a replacement Knight for Free?Steve
Today I received an e-mail from Millennium apologising for the faulty piece and saying they will send me a replacement Knight, hooray!

Apparently it is very rare for a piece to work at first and then stop, they have only known of three cases so far. Either way,

I am glad I have ordered a spare set Regards
Ray
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Steve B »

Yarc wrote: Today I received an e-mail from Millennium apologising for the faulty piece and saying they will send me a replacement Knight, hooray!
Glad to hear that Ray
Millennium continues to demonstrate ..a very refreshing.. high level of care for their customers

Knighted Regards
Steve
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Yarc »

Steve B wrote: Millennium continues to demonstrate ..a very refreshing.. high level of care for their customers
Yes indeed, and I am also looking forward to the Lang Engine update later this year. I know you wont be as excited already having Lang coming out of your ears, but I believe it will add styles of play and possibly endgame improvements judging by what was said on ChessEval.com.

Good stuff to come Regards
Ray
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Dave C »

Yarc wrote:
Steve B wrote: Millennium continues to demonstrate ..a very refreshing.. high level of care for their customers
Yes indeed, and I am also looking forward to the Lang Engine update later this year. I know you wont be as excited already having Lang coming out of your ears, but I believe it will add styles of play and possibly endgame improvements judging by what was said on ChessEval.com.

Good stuff to come Regards
Ray
Ray and Steve - when you consider Millennium's soon to be released addition of the King program by de Konig...the Exclusive will have even more variety, flexiblity and be more exciting to play. :D

Anticipation...regards,
Dave
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Yarc »

Dave C wrote:Ray and Steve - when you consider Millennium's soon to be released addition of the King program by de Konig...the Exclusive will have even more variety, flexiblity and be more exciting to play. :D

Anticipation...regards,
Dave
Hi Dave,

Yes, it's a very exciting time, and I think the de Konig program will be very nice to have, but I'm also liking the MCGE as it is.

Now that I have received my spare set of chessmen I can continue with my 10 game match between the MCGE and Magellan. I'm using the MCGE's Master book, but I think I'll have to repeat the match with the London Book just for good measure.

I'm guessing the outcome should be around 7.5 v 2.5 to the MCGE as I believe the ELO difference is around 200 points. Time will tell.

The King is NOT dead, long live the King Regards
Ray
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Steve B »

Dave C wrote:
when you consider Millennium's soon to be released addition of the King program by de Konig...the Exclusive will have even more variety, flexiblity and be more exciting to play.

you know Dave....there is something about the MCGE that i find strangely compelling
i dont usually keep one computer on my desk very long as i am constantly rotating them in and out ..testing and playing them..making sure they are still working
i had the Res I and Res II out about a month each before i switched to a different computer..same for the MCG and MCGP..but for some inexplicable reason i still have the MCGE out since the first day i got it(7+ months now)..i cant seem to bring myself to box it up and move on

Perplexed Regards
Steve
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by Dave C »

Steve B wrote:
Dave C wrote:
when you consider Millennium's soon to be released addition of the King program by de Konig...the Exclusive will have even more variety, flexiblity and be more exciting to play.

you know Dave....there is something about the MCGE that i find strangely compelling
i dont usually keep one computer on my desk very long as i am constantly rotating them in and out ..testing and playing them..making sure they are still working
i had the Res I and Res II out about a month each before i switched to a different computer..same for the MCG and MCGP..but for some inexplicable reason i still have the MCGE out since the first day i got it(7+ months now)..i cant seem to bring myself to box it up and move on

Perplexed Regards
Steve
Displacing the Res I and Res II is quite an achievement.
I have had a similar experience Steve. My Exclusive is still on my desk too. I have a second space on my desk that was occupied by a TASC R30 but that spot has now become my rotation space next to the MCGE. With the expectation of additional and more powerful control modules along with the King program is very exciting to me.

Great expectations....regards,
Dave
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by mclane »

Steve B wrote:
Dave C wrote:
when you consider Millennium's soon to be released addition of the King program by de Konig...the Exclusive will have even more variety, flexiblity and be more exciting to play.

you know Dave....there is something about the MCGE that i find strangely compelling
i dont usually keep one computer on my desk very long as i am constantly rotating them in and out ..testing and playing them..making sure they are still working
i had the Res I and Res II out about a month each before i switched to a different computer..same for the MCG and MCGP..but for some inexplicable reason i still have the MCGE out since the first day i got it(7+ months now)..i cant seem to bring myself to box it up and move on

Perplexed Regards
Steve

The MCGE is very compact.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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Post by mclane »

The MCGE has 40/120.

Or which time control you talk about ?
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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Re: MCGE against the Magellan

Post by spacious_mind »

Dave C wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Dave C wrote:
when you consider Millennium's soon to be released addition of the King program by de Konig...the Exclusive will have even more variety, flexiblity and be more exciting to play.

you know Dave....there is something about the MCGE that i find strangely compelling
i dont usually keep one computer on my desk very long as i am constantly rotating them in and out ..testing and playing them..making sure they are still working
i had the Res I and Res II out about a month each before i switched to a different computer..same for the MCG and MCGP..but for some inexplicable reason i still have the MCGE out since the first day i got it(7+ months now)..i cant seem to bring myself to box it up and move on

Perplexed Regards
Steve
Displacing the Res I and Res II is quite an achievement.
I have had a similar experience Steve. My Exclusive is still on my desk too. I have a second space on my desk that was occupied by a TASC R30 but that spot has now become my rotation space next to the MCGE. With the expectation of additional and more powerful control modules along with the King program is very exciting to me.

Great expectations....regards,
Dave
Yep, I find the same too... for a long time I was tired out with so many Lang reiterations, but I also find that the extra speed has in some ways changed the behavior some when playing MCGE. It just feels more exciting to play. Perhaps when King comes along in the spring, I will include both in Division 1 to play against the big boys.

Also MCG and MCGP I enjoy as well because of their compact size, it gives me plenty of space on the table when I play these tournaments. Sure it would be nicer if the display was a little larger, but I have played smaller displays in my time so its all relative. Try playing a game with Excalibur Key Chess some time if you want small!! .... :)

Regards

Nick
Nick
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Yarc
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Post by Yarc »

mclane wrote:The MCGE has 40/120.

Or which time control you talk about ?
Tournament 5 is 40m/2h and then 20m/h which is probably close enough but the Magellan just has 40m/2h. I know the average equates to the same time per move, but there is a subtle difference here which may or may not make a difference.
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Good support from Millennium!

Post by Yarc »

Hi,

After having problems with a black night not being recognised by the MCGE, I contacted Millennium and they are sending me a replacement. In the meantime I ordered a spare set of pieces which arrived and joy was able to use my MCGE again. But then more piece recognition strangeness occured!
The H8 square was not recognising a white Rook, but other Rooks and pieces were being recognised on it!? I thought I had another piece failure, but the same Rook worked on all other squares! I then started to think the board was at fault. Then, everything worked again including the original black Knight!! :roll:

I have been in contact with Millennium and receiving very good service. They have identified a possible connection problem and have asked me to send my MCGE back offering to refund the postage! They are then going to send me a new MCGE! :D

Excellent service Regards
Ray
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